Look, let me be clear, but these emission targets that we have today, lowering our emission today is not a matter of carbon capture by ’25. It’s a matter of a lot of projects, which are just being more efficient. There’s some technology to implement on on everything. So we could describe to you at a point the type of projects. Maybe it will be a good idea by — in September, we’ll have a strategic day to come back on this topic if you are — if most of you are interested in it. So carbon capture are more for 2030-plus targets, where we will need to have implemented. Within criteria for carbon capture, it’s just a matter of price of CO2. That’s why, I think, in the U.S., you have the IRA. In Europe, you have this $100 per tonne price. So when you compare both, at the end, it is — more or less it gives another economy.
And from this perspective, as Europe seems to be very serious about CO2 pricing, I think, on the long term, it’s something which is maybe more sustainable, but fiscal incentive, which could — which is sustainable for 10 years. It could disappear afterwards. The key on CCS will be, of course, the size of the market. We need to — because there is some infrastructures to amortize. So my view is that you need to reach at least 10 million tonnes, 50 million tonnes per year of storage if you want to have a profitable model. That means proposing transport and storage services to cement industry of less than $50 per tonne. Because they capture costs, they could go around $50 per tonne. So if you speak about $50 per tonne, you need to split it between both.
It works, again, if the support for infrastructure is key, if you have enough tonnes to put in those projects. From this perspective, you know the Denmark project is well located, not far from Germany. It’s shorter to make a pipeline from German industries to Denmark, one from German, so Norway. Just looking to a map. So that might be a bit of volumes. Now the Dutch project is good because you have the Rotterdam and larger industrial platforms, which could give some customers to these Dutch projects, Aramis, and what we are working on. So that’s the idea. Return criteria, again, it’s — we have to look to — we have to do it because it’s — by the way, for me, for the oil and gas industry, it’s a question of permit to operate, all right? We have to be serious about lowering our Scope 1 and 2 emissions.
You know that I’m not very a big fan of the Scope 3 debate. But of Scope 1 and 2, I’m very serious because it is a duty for us to do it. We have technologies. We have capacity. So it’s a cost. It might become an opportunity if we can commercialize the technology to third parties, and this is — or one B2B entity is trying to develop that. We have a first project with Holcim in Belgium on these type of things. But again, for me, we will develop first this project because we have to do it for our own emissions. It’s a question of permit to operate. And in oil and gas industry, this is embedded in the global strategy of the company. But as I show you, we can be very profitable. Like we are among the best and, at the same time, having CapEx for low-carbon energies, carbon capture, we do it in a large way.
