Pegasystems Inc. (NASDAQ:PEGA) Q4 2023 Earnings Call Transcript

Pegasystems Inc. (NASDAQ:PEGA) Q4 2023 Earnings Call Transcript February 15, 2024

Pegasystems Inc. isn’t one of the 30 most popular stocks among hedge funds at the end of the third quarter (see the details here).

Operator: Good morning. My name is Jeannie and I will be your conference operator today. I would like to welcome to the Pegasystems Q4 and Fiscal Year 2023 Earnings Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers’ remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions]. Thank you. I would now like to turn the conference over to Peter Welburn, VP of Corporate Development and Investor Relations. You may begin your conference. Peter Welburn Thank you, Jeannie. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Pegasystems Q4 and Full-Year 2023 Earnings Call. Before we begin, I would like to read our Safe Harbor statement. Certain statements contained in this presentation may be construed as forward-looking statements as defined in the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995.

The words expects, anticipates, intends, plans, believes, will, could, should, estimates, may, forecasts and guidance, or variations of such words and other similar expressions identify forward-looking statements, which speak only as of the date the statement was made and are based on current expectations and assumptions. Because such statements deal with future events, they are subject to various risks and uncertainties, actual results for fiscal 2024 and beyond could differ materially from the company’s current expectations. Factors that could cause the company’s results to differ materially from those expressed in forward-looking statements are contained in the company’s press release announcing its Q4 2023 and full-year earnings and in the company’s filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including its annual report on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2023 and other recent filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

Investors are cautioned not to place undue reliance on such forward-looking statements, and there are no assurances that the matters contained in such statements will be achieved. Although subsequent events may change our views to change except as required by applicable law, we do not undertake, and specifically disclaim, any obligation to publicly update or revise these forward-looking statements, whether as the result of new information, future events or otherwise. And with that, I turn the call over to Alan Trefler, Founder and CEO of Pegasystems.

Alan Trefler: Thank you, Peter and to everyone who’s joining today’s call. It’s terrific to see how well the team performed in 2023. The organization responded to our new go-to-market strategy, and we finished the year with a very strong Q4. We continue to deepen and expand our client relationships. We’ve been doing a terrific job, I think, of applying Gen AI to introduce innovative industry-changing technology. And we generated a good mix of growth and cash flow, which Ken will discuss in more detail in a few minutes. This year continued the important themes we’ve been talking about. And I’m more convinced than ever, there’s still amazing opportunity for growth within our client base. And I’m confident in our org focused deep engagement model.

I continue to engage with our most senior clients, most recently in Davos for the World Economic Forum annual meeting. And I talked to dozens of C suite clients and partners about how they’re responding to change, their business opportunities, the challenges and plans for 2024 and beyond. AI is still central to almost every client conversation, as they continue to try to understand and explore where and how to leverage AI effectively and safely in their organizations. And we’re showing them how Pega can help. these conversations reinforce for me that what we have is unique and perfectly suited to enterprise needs. I couldn’t be more excited about the incredible opportunity to leverage Gen AI and revolutionize the way clients use our technology to drive success in 2024 and beyond.

Let me tell you why Pega is perfectly positioned to help clients deliver on the Gen AI opportunity. Since our founding, we’ve been incorporating the principles of AI generally, statistical as well as in our generative, into our offerings and really focused on building products designed for the needs of the sophisticated enterprise. Our clients come to us because they want to transform their businesses become more efficient, more profitable, or improve loyalty, creating better experiences for their customers and employees. And our enterprise AI decisioning and workflow automation platform enables clients to unlock business transforming outcomes, with real time optimization and continuous improvement. You can find great case studies on our website that explain how our clients are using the software to, one, improve customer engagement by customizing conversations real time and at scale.

For instance, Wells Fargo describes how they’re using our customer decision hub to provide targeted and relevant responses to the billions of interactions they receive monthly from customers. Secondly, to enhance client service through AI-powered guidance that delivers amazing experiences for customers’ employees, boosting loyalty, supporting retention and driving down costs. Aflac describes on the website how we’re simplifying and automating the processing of thousands of emails per week [indiscernible] resolution, improving customer employee satisfaction. And finally, what we’ve always done, streamlining operations by automating operations with intelligence. This is what Lloyd’s talks about, automating their business processes to resolve fraud and dispute cases faster and more effectively, even while on the phone with the client.

These results are what matter to our clients. They’re looking to transform their businesses, not simply crank out more code. So when we apply Gen AI, we’re not using it to generate code. We’re using it to optimize the business concepts, adhering to best practices, for example, suggesting the most efficient and effective way to process a mortgage or insurance claim, or how to create the best offer and marketing treatment for our client. We have a unique structure built around business concepts and enterprise to process rules, data models, UI, all of those are organized into layers, so they can be built on, reused and specialized to support the needs of different product lines, customer segments, or geographical jurisdictions that an enterprise might need to manage.

This layered architecture is the perfect architecture for Gen AI. And what I believe is Pega unique advantage because we use the Gen AI not to write code, but to directly author and control and influence the business concepts themselves. This unique layer cake architecture has enabled us to develop, integrate and deliver new Gen AI capabilities and services very quickly. And it’s based on a patented architecture that we’ve studied and evolved for decades and can’t readily be copied or reproduced. I think this gives us a clear competitive advantage. In terms of our strategy for this year and next, there are four major areas we believe our approach to Gen AI will drive a massive impact for our clients and for Pega. First, we’re looking to double developer productivity in Pega, with Pega skills always at their fingertips.

Second, we’re looking to ignite enterprise innovation by being able to bring together industry expertise, Pega technology, the wisdom of the internet, and our clients’ insights. Third, we’re looking to try to maximize revenue and efficiencies for our clients by giving them real-time optimization and personalization of customer interactions and making it, so that they can continually optimize. And finally, being able to streamline work processes and customer experiences by giving the right people instant access to the right real-time systems and capabilities, so they can literally get the work done. Let me tell you how we’re delivering on the strategy today and what to expect in the future. Now we started by introducing 20 Gen AI boosters as part of Pega Infinity ’23 in the fourth quarter, supporting our goal of improving developer productivity and showing our clients how these tools can be used safely and responsibly.

We launched an interactive demo on our website that lets clients immediately experience the power of our Gen AI capabilities. You went through the description of a business process you want to optimize and Pega Gen AI helps you design the optimal processes, the stages, the steps, the data model, the user personas, all in seconds. It’s available to any of you. Since its launch, thousands of visitors have experienced the demo and doing workflows from client onboarding to 5G network rollout, and we’re hearing terrific things. Do, get on, trying it yourself. And in the last few weeks, we announced two new powerful offerings that I think are going to be game changing. The Pega GenAI Knowledge Buddy and the Pega GenAI Blueprint. The Knowledge Buddy is an enterprise grade generative AI powered knowledge assistant to quickly and easily help customers and employees get specific answers based on a company’s own content.

But since it’s synthesized by generative AI, so employees don’t have to search across siloed and scattered knowledge bases. Now there are lots of Gen AI based assistants in the market that ingest content or answer questions. But when we looked at them, we think that they’re generally not built for true enterprise needs. So we’ve designed a product that is fortified with enterprise grade integration, auditing and controls. It puts organizational knowledge at employees and customers fingertips, allowing them to ask questions through simple conversational interfaces, and get specific, accurate and concise responses with transparent attributions to where the source content is coming from. We’re using Knowledge Buddy to embed all the Pega documentation and support library into our design environment, so developers can easily find answers about how Pega can make them more productive and operate faster and with less training.

This powerful combination of our innovative AI architecture with security features means that our clients can use this latest technology and feel confident and safe, knowing they’re adhering to high standards of trust and responsibility. And just a few days ago, we announced something I think is going to be truly remarkable as it develops. It’s the Pega GenAI Blueprint. This is a collaborative SaaS application that automates enterprise grade workflow application designs to catalyze enterprise innovation and significantly increase developer productivity. I’m going to ask Kerim Akgonul, our Chief Product Officer, to tell you about this groundbreaking product. Kerim?

Kerim Akgonul : All right. Thank you, Alan. GenAI Blueprint is very exciting. And it really stems from the fact that we all know that traditional design processes are often unsuccessful and are always very time consuming mostly because they don’t really stimulate design thinking, they don’t drive a vision, they don’t really drive stakeholder alignment. And these days, most generative AI approaches focus solely on churning out software code. They’re not focused on organizing outcomes or driving business alignment. But Pega GenAI Blueprint is entirely focused on driving incredible outcomes with amazing speed for enterprise applications. It combines Pega’s robust library of industry expertise and process templates with general internet knowledge.

It uses generative AI to synthesize all of that information and automatically recommended best practice workflows, data models, and more, all just from an application name and brief description. We even get to layer in a client’s best practices to ensure effectiveness and reuse. And there is absolutely nothing else like this in the market today. Business leaders across every industry can rapidly capture their vision and even rethink their business processes to drive innovation in their organizations, sparking brand new ideas that they wouldn’t have thought of on their own. This interactive application blueprint it generates are easily understood and collaborated on by all stakeholders to drive alignment. It can take blueprint suggestions and alter them to meet their needs.

And once agreed to, they are ingested into Pega to generate the enterprise grade cloud-architected applications. And this is how you can leverage Gen AI to actually drive transformation in the enterprise. And when you get a chance to see this product, you’ll be astonished at the speed of innovation and how widely applicable it is across every industry and geography. The response from our early adopter clients and partners has been incredibly positive for their specific use cases. And what’s important is that Pega GenAI Knowledge Buddy and Pega GenAI Blueprint will help our clients and partners more quickly and easily learn how to build Pega applications. And since Pega has always been known as one of the most powerful platforms for creating applications and we’re now significantly reducing the barrier to entry and speed to value by making it much more accessible.

And we’ve just really just scratched the surface of what Gen AI can do. These news products are the start of a series of exciting offerings that we’ll be offering between now and PegaWorld on June 9 that will continue to deliver on our strategy. I’ll turn it back off to Alan.

Alan Trefler : Thanks, Kerim. It’s very exciting. And we’re very excited to be going back to Las Vegas again this year for PegaWorld from June 9 to June 11. Please mark your calendars. We have an exciting lineup of clients who are presenting. For example, National Australia Bank will be featuring its groundbreaking initiatives using the customer decision up to drive value for the bank and its customers, developed and into production in under six months. And Verizon will be talking about how it permeated selling into all its customer facing teams and delighting customers by leveraging deep intelligence about the client, marketing science and real time signals. So check out the agenda on pega.com to see the dozens of other great client stories you’ll be able to hear about in person and talk to the customers directly.

And of course, we’ll be talking about and showing our newest innovations and what to expect for the rest of the year. Now we’ve scheduled our investor session for Monday the 10th at noon local time. And we hope to see you then, if not before. I’ll be joining Ken to meet with some investors here while on the road visiting clients. So keep an eye out for an invite and be sure to register. It’s going to be tremendous. So in summary, we’re delivering transformative innovation to truly change the way the world builds software. I’m pleased that our go-to-market and org focused model is working. And our focus on balancing growth and profitability in evident in our results. I believe we have competitive advantage through our architecture, and we’re going to be able to leverage Gen AI to bring significant value to clients in a way our competitors can’t easily match.

And I think there’s a tremendous opportunity for scraps in 2024 and beyond. To provide more color on our financial results, let me now turn it over to Ken Stillwell, our COO and CFO.

Ken Stillwell : Thanks, Alan. Pega has truly entered a new financial frontier. We finished the year with extremely strong growth in free cash flow and a nice re acceleration of Pega Cloud ACV. In the 40 year history of Pega, we’ve never seen the level of cash flow generation we experienced in 2023. And quite frankly, we’re just getting started. The shift to a new subscription business model provides us with improved visibility, which allows us to better manage the operating efficiency of the firm and drive superior cash generation. That dynamic, coupled with our strong go-to-market execution in the fourth quarter of 2023, resulted in impressive results in a challenging market. Annual contract value, or ACV, continues to be the most important metric to measure the success of our business.

The ACV growth in constant currency accelerated in Q4, growing by 11% year-over-year. Our double-digit ACV growth was powered by an extremely strong net new ACV add in the fourth quarter. In fact, our sales team put more net new ACV in Q4 of 2023 than it did in Q4 of 2022, a clear indication that our new go-to-market strategy is working. The surge in net new ACV was a result of extremely strong growth in Pega.Cloud. We added $58 million in Pega Cloud ACV in the fourth quarter alone, the highest of any quarter ever. As a result, Pega Cloud ACV growth reaccelerated in Q4 to 21% year-over-year. It’s just awesome to see. Pega Cloud is now our primary offering the clients are demanding as it enables our clients to focus on developing innovative business applications on the Pega platform without having to manage an underlying cloud infrastructure.

It also helps keep our clients current on the latest and greatest Pega technology, which is also a tremendous benefit. Moving on to revenue. We achieved total revenue of $1.43 billion. Revenue growth was driven by two key factors. First, 2023 had a larger number of term renewals than in 2022. Second, we had a handful of clients in Q4 who chose to renew term license contracts for longer durations than we forecast. Under ASC 606, as many of you are aware, a significant portion of multi-year term license bookings are recognized as subscription license revenue in the quarter that the deals are booked. Moving to cash flow. Cash flow from operations was $218 million, an increase of over 800% from the prior year’s total of $22 million. Free cash flow surged year-over-year to $201 million, once again the highest free cash flow in the history of the company.

This strong increase demonstrates the core strength and completion of our subscription transition and the team’s success in managing operating costs. We achieved this amazing number, even though we had over $50 million in items like restructuring and legal costs. We expanded non-GAAP Pega Cloud margin from 70% to approximately 75%. We also improved operating leverage across all three operating expense lines. We reduced non-GAAP sales and marketing expense as percentage of total revenue from 43% to 35%, making the very difficult decision to execute the two reductions in force in 2023. These two actions brought together our sales and client success teams, reduced operational silos and focused our teams on cross selling and upselling into the existing clients.

Capital expense also normalized since we had completed the build out of our Waltham, Massachusetts office. Moving on to earnings per share. Full year GAAP EPS came in at $0.73 and non-GAAP EPS was $2.48. Non-GAAP EPS exceeded $2 per share for the first time in the company’s history. Many of the same factors that powered our strong cash flow growth were key drivers in our year-over-year improvement in EPS as well. I’m really happy with our double-digit ACV growth and our robust increase in free cash flow. We wanted to exit 2023 as a rule of 30 company which we’ve done. We define the rule of 30 the same way we define the rule of 40 that the combination of our ACV growth, plus our free cash flow margin, adjusted for any items like restructuring, legal fees, interest expense, taxes, essentially making it an EBITDA like equivalent measure.

Achieving the rule of 30 demonstrates progress we’ve made instilling much greater operational rigor and performance transparency in our business. Moving to our guidance for 2024. As a reminder, we provide annual guidance at the beginning of the year, and we do not typically update annual guidance unless we do a material acquisition. We do not provide quarterly guidance. Starting with our growth metrics for 2024. We expect ACV to grow 11%. We expect total revenue of approximately $1.5 billion. Revenue growth will be slower than ACV growth in 2024 because we have a slightly lower mix of multi-year term license renewals and we’re modeling an uptick in cloud-based bookings as clients continue to buy Pega Cloud as the primary offering. Moving to our profitability metrics.

We’re guiding cash flow from operations to $365 million. We’re forecasting free cash flow to increase about 75% year-over-year to $350 million. We expect GAAP EPS of $1.18 per share and non-GAAP EPS of $2.75 per share. I’ve received feedback that it’s helpful when we share thoughts on modeling our business. So I’ll continue to offer a few suggestions, starting with ACV growth. We expect ACV growth to once again be back end loaded in 2024. As we experienced in 2023, many of our existing client contracts are up for renewal at the end of the year. And since we plan to focus our go-to-market motion on cross selling and upselling into our existing clients, we expect to see a significant portion of our net new ACV that gets added in the final quarter of the year.

This is very common for enterprise technology companies. And quite frankly, in the environment that we’ve seen in 2023 and we predicted 2024, we will continue to see a significant amount of transactions that tend to happen towards the end of a buying cycle or a fiscal year. Given that we’ve added such unusually high amount of net new ACV in Q1 of 2023, we face a very tough ACV compare in the first quarter of 2024. As a result, you would expect that our ACV growth rate would slow a little in the first quarter and then bounce back at the later part of the year. Moving to term license revenue, we expect total term license revenue to decrease year-over-year in 2024 as existing clients and new clients choose Pega Cloud. We also have a slightly lower number of multi-year renewals coming due in 2024 than we did in 2023.

We also expect to book shorter duration term license contracts, as more of our clients value the consumptive nature of their growth. Under ASC 606, a shorter duration term license contract results in less term license revenue booked upfront than a traditionally longer duration contract. However, more frequent contract renewals provides us with a greater opportunity to cross sell, upsell and support and assist our clients as they move to Pega Cloud and also initiate new workloads and new use cases on Pega Cloud. Next, I want to remind you that PegaWorld, our annual client and partner event, as Alan mentioned, will be held from Sunday, June 9. through Tuesday, June 11 at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas. Please mark your calendars. We’d love to have you join us in person as you have in previous years.

Our annual investor session is planned for Monday, June 10, during the PegaWorld session. In addition, we’ll be on the road at several sell side conferences in March, as well as a few NDRs. We look forward to catching up with all of you soon. In conclusion, we’ve focused on providing outstanding experiences and value to our clients and believe that well managed firms drive responsible levels of free cash flow for their shareholders. As we’ve demonstrated in 2023, we’re very focused on balancing growth and profitability and made outstanding progress on both of these metrics. We’ve set the course for achieving the rule of 40 as we exit 2024 with double-digit ACV growth and robust free cash flow. Operator, please open the call for questions.

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Q&A Session

Operator: [Operator Instructions]. Your first question comes from the line of Steve Enders with Citi.

Steve Enders: It would be great to hear on what you are seeing out there in the macro landscape. It sounds like it’s still a pretty challenging environment, but pretty good results here on the ACV. So yeah, maybe just if we could get an update on how things are trending and how you’re thinking about the macro setup for 2024 here.

Alan Trefler: I think it’s a challenging environment. There’s a lot of uncertainty out there. But we’re seeing great receptivity to our approach to the use of AI, and how we’re looking to weave it in to our product lines, which, as I said, I think we have a really unique architecture with this layer cake you’ve heard me talk about, which is at the heart of our models and architecture that is just different than the way other people look. And candidly, really fits beautifully with how we incorporate the Gen AI. So as we get our customers to see that, we’re seeing a lot of enthusiasm. In reality, all this stuff is really new. And people are just sort of trying to understand what it’s going to mean for them. There is so much hype around this stuff that I think customers are appropriately a little skeptical.

And we actually welcome that. Because we think by exploring what’s really there, they’re going to be able to tell the difference between the stuff that’s going to leave them high, dry and disappointed and what we think we’re going to be able to do. But I’ll tell you, the level of enthusiasm for not just what we’re talking about, but how we’re doing it, I think, is very high.

Ken Stillwell: I’ll add one other perspective on that, Steve. Given that we have a war going on in Eastern Europe, certainly a war going on in the Middle East, inflation rates still kind of bouncing around in the global economy, our clients have been pretty resilient through that, right? Their buying patterns, their investment in technology has actually stayed pretty strong. So, although I think there is still some – we are still watching the macro backdrop, it’s actually been pretty resilient in 2023 and into 2024. So we’re pretty optimistic about the economic landscape going forward. But there are a lot of things out there that are risks as a couple of the ones I just mentioned that we just have to watch.

Steve Enders: Alan, you were talking quite a bit about Gen AI and how clients are thinking about it. And I guess, how do you kind of cut through the noise out there to position Pega to be one of the first calls that people will make as they look to implement Gen AI? And I guess, maybe for Ken, how are you thinking about modeling adoption through the year and the impact to the model here?

Alan Trefler: We are not just positioning, but implementing Gen AI as core to our product lineup. So this isn’t some standalone SKU that’s off to the side. This is something that’s going to empower our entire product line and the way that our customers work, generally. And what I’ll tell you is that if you go look at Pega’s generative AI demo that we’ve had on our website since November, or if you go look at Blueprint, which was announced at the beginning of this week, and I believe it’s just another game changing evolution of what was shown in November, I think you’ll be able to see our clients realize this doesn’t just let them like vomit up more code faster. This lets them rethink their business in an organized, structured, and most importantly, extensible way.

And I think that will become very clear, if you take a look at it. Certainly, the demos we’ve been giving the clients and partners over the last two weeks have gotten a brilliant response. So we’re feeling good about that.

Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Rishi Jaluria with RBC Capital Markets.

Rishi Jaluria: I wanted to stick first on the topic of generative AI. Ken, I remember at the Analyst Day last year, you talked a lot about how, ultimately, this is going to manifest itself in driving consumption rather than distribute pricing for a distinct SKU? Maybe can you help us understand, number one, what adoption rates look like of a lot of your Gen AI capabilities today? And how can that adoption rate trend maybe over the next one to three years? And alongside that, let’s assume that we’re going to get no real AI revenue this year. But at a certain point, how do you start to measure that this usage is actually translating to revenue on the consumption line above typical trends? Maybe help us understand your framework for that. And then I’ve got a quick follow up.

Ken Stillwell: Let me take let me let me take a piece of that and then Alan can chime in. So, you’re correct. And we still believe that the primary value that Gen AI and an application like Blueprint, for example, what it really does is it helps to reduce the barrier to clients being able to leverage Pega to automate parts of their business. We believe that strongly. When you see it, and you will see it soon, you’ll understand that you’ll be able to real time be able to exceed that experience as we have and our clients and partners have. The second part of that is, so what does that reducing that barrier to entry do? Well, given that we believe that Pega is the leader in workflow automation, we see that as an opportunity to expand the use cases, the number of companies, the speed at which those companies deploy those applications.

So generative AI for us is not a $30 add on of a feature that a user can use in an environment because we think that is a very limited value in terms of the company. It’s a price that will ultimately get commoditized over time. We believe Gen AI will allow our clients to allow Pega to be much more pervasive into their application landscape to allow them to power their businesses. In terms of the measurement, the measurement is quite clear. It’s the growth in our ACV accelerating through the use of generative AI tools like Blueprint with our clients. I know that the question that you’re really asking is, will we be able to see a line in the actual financial statements that says AI. I would say, we won’t say no because you never know how pricing and packaging may evolve over time.

But the primary value for us is to allow clients to get value from enterprise grade applications like ours faster. And we think that is a powerful differentiator.

Alan Trefler: I would say that, unlike the way some people are going at this, we’ve actually incorporated an AI at the very heart of everything that we’re doing. And what that means is that it’s going to power the engine, or it should power the engine for faster adoption and faster growth. And that’s where you’ll see it. By the way, I think that’s a much better and more appropriate way to apply a technology that’s dramatic than having it be sort of an add on individual set of SKUs. Doesn’t mean there won’t be some SKUs off to the side, but the real meaningful change is what this does to the heart of our entire business.

Ken Stillwell: I would say there’s maybe one exception that you will actually see us have a SKU that will potentially have some transactional value too, which is our buddies, right? Where we would actually sell our Knowledge Buddy capabilities or embed them and that you may actually see us have that be something that is worth talking about in the future. I say may because we have to decide whether that’s appropriate or not. But I would say that’s kind of how we’re thinking about Gen AI in our business.

Alan Trefler: The buddies represent a tiny fraction of how Gen AI is changing this product line.

Operator: Just a quick follow-up. I know Cloud Choice has always been at the heart of Pega and part of your value proposition. As you think about Gen AI adoption, especially given resource intensity of Gen AI workloads that can be 10x more resource intensive than traditional workloads, can you really talk about how does Gen AI play into now the whole Cloud Choice? Does it maybe push customers more towards adopting Pega Cloud in a soft manner because some of these Gen AI services can be cloud only services, maybe help us understand how that all works out?

Alan Trefler: I’m going to try to avoid drifting too technical, but we’re going to have to go as deep as anybody wants subsequently. So, to be able to operate and use Gen AI effectively, we do need to be in a cloud environment. And we are seeing clients say, hey, we’d like to be on Pega Cloud, Gen AI is just another reason why that’s an advantage, in addition to the other advantages Ken mentioned during the script. But we’ve also introduced a new capability we call prem bridge, which allows an on-premise Pega customer to create an effective digital twin of the AI capability on Pega Cloud, so they can keep their main system in their environment, but bridge from their premise to Pega Cloud for the use cases of generative AI.

That way, we get to do Gen AI at the speed of cloud and continue that moving along fast. But for some of our customers, who are, candidly, though, increasingly more open to being 100% cloud, some of our customers do want to keep some things on premise. And I think Cloud Choice keeps everyone honest. So from a value system point of view, I kind of like it that it’s not creating captive customers, and this is a way we can I think support the best of all worlds.

Rishi Jaluria: Your next question comes from the line of Jake Roberge with William Blair.