But I think it’s really just about high-value tourism. I wouldn’t look at the absolute number of visitor arrivals and use it as a determining factor for where the business can go.
Rob Goldstein: I think Patrick’s comments are spot on, Steve. We have limited — we have capacity constrained building in MBS. Unfortunately, we only have so many rooms suites, which we got 10 times as much, but we don’t. So the mass market tourism is as important to us as the right tourists in the market. We look at this asset as a $2 billion asset today annualized EBITDA, but we believe it can grow 10% to 20% over the next three to four years. And then hopefully, we can finalize our plans with the government once the government blesses another building, we believe that, that could open later this year and make us a $3 billion projected EBITDA by end of decade in Singapore. So we see ourselves now at $2 billion, going to $2.2, billion, $2.3 billion, $2.4 billion and eventually stepping up to $3 billion.
We see huge growth in this asset. It’s just beginning. We got obviously hampered by COVID, but to watch it growing is growing. Our only disappointment in Singapore is we just don’t have more space, because it’s a very desirable market and that building probably the most valuable in hotel building ever built in the world and will just accelerate in the next three, to four, five years until hopefully, we can tell you a finality, we have a deal in Phase II.
Stephen Grambling: Makes sense. It’s all helpful. Thanks so much. Best of luck.
Rob Goldstein: Thank you.
Patrick Dumont: Thanks, Stephen.
Operator: Thank you. Your next question is coming from Carlo Santarelli from Deutsche Bank. Carlo, your line is live. Please go ahead.
Carlo Santarelli: Thank you. Hey, guys. Rob, you touched on it a little bit just there, but I was wondering, obviously, there’s a ton of moving parts with COVID and everything else, but $1 billion in Phase I at Marina Bay Sands. Returns on that product look to be very favorable, $750 million over 2024 and into 2025. I was wondering how you think about returns there? And then to your point there at the end of your last comments, when do you expect to have an update around the timing and perhaps the spend on the larger scale projects there?
Rob Goldstein: I’ll just reiterate how much we believe in Singapore as a market. My comment is about $3 billion. We actually believe retainable when we opened this new building late in the decade. As for the update, Patrick’s been right in the middle of that. So Patrick please take it away in terms of Phase II Singapore.
Patrick Dumont: Yeah. I think it’s an interesting comment. I think the key thing for us is that we are an investment-driven story, right? So the more we invest in high-quality assets, the better service levels we have, the more we’re going to have pricing, the more we’re going to differentiate our product, the more we’re going to have high-value tourists and the more our EBITDA and margins will grow. And so you’re seeing that happen real time in Singapore. And so for us, I think we’ll finish the third tower by Chinese New Year next year, that $750 million will go in. We’ll saw some amenities that have to be done across parts of 2025 — but by the mid part of 2025, we’re basically going to have what is, in effect, a brand-new building.
It’s going to be fully renovated, and you’ll get to see the full power of the suite product on the rolling side. You get to see the power of the premium mass and all the amenities that we have, the shopping, the entertainment, all the things that we’re adding in terms of our premium mass lifestyle program that you can’t get any place else. These are all very positive things and the quality of these amenities base customers want to be repeat visitors. And so for us, these investments will drive very high returns. That’s the reason why we were willing to do and that reason why the board was supportive. You can see the trajectory of EBITDA now, we’re not even done. So we think Tower 3 will be very accretive in terms of investment. You heard the numbers Rob just mentioned.
We’re very confident in those numbers. We feel very strongly, but that’s where we should be going. And then in terms of the next building, IR 2, we’ve been in very close discussions with the government over many months. There’s a lot of moving parts here, a lot of things we have to satisfy. This is a project of national significance. We want to make sure that everyone is comfortable with it and that we get all the proper approvals, and we’re hoping in the next quarter or two that we’ll get everything done. We’ve been making good progress. We’ve been visiting Singapore, and we feel very confident where we are. And hopefully, we’ll be able to get all the green lights we need and we’ll be able to et going soon.
Carlo Santarelli: That’s all I need. Thank you guys. Helpful.
Rob Goldstein: Thank you, Carlo. Appreciate it.
Operator: Thank you. Your next question is coming from Shaun Kelley from Bank of America. Shaun, your line is live. Please go ahead.
Shaun Kelley: Hi. Good afternoon, everyone. I wanted to offer my congrats to Grant on the promotion as well. And maybe speaking of promotions, Grant or whoever, if you could comment a little bit just on the promotional environment. I mean, I think this is a big question or theme that came out of the quarter last quarter and just sort of what you’re seeing, particularly at the upper end of the premium mass segment right now? And in general, our premium mass market margins consistent with your pre-COVID expected ranges, or are they still a little bit below that? And what would it take for them to recover? Thanks.
Rob Goldstein: Grant? Shaun, that was good by the way. Thank you.
Grant Chum: Thank you, Shaun for the question. I think if you look at the competitive landscape, of course, it is very intense at the premium mass segment. But if you look at also at our margin structure, I think the way we’ve driven our business is no different from before, which is to really drive and elevate the product and to drive the content and the events that we put on across a whole range of sectors to attract visitors and patrons. And I do think that back to Patrick’s opening comment, if you look at that margin progression, underlying margin grew another 100 basis points. We actually saw a good improvement in our mass margin sequentially. So we are dealing with the competitive market as any competitor does. It is intense, but we believe strongly that in the end, product wins and Londoner and Grand Suisse at Four Seasons are true living evolving testaments of that argument, that good product wins.
And there are going to be fluctuations in the competitive intensity in particular segments at different points in time. But to have a sustainable competitive advantage and sustainable profitable growth, product and service and the content we put into the resort calendar are still going to trump everything else. And you can see that through what we’ve done at Londoner is already at a run rate of close to $800 million as it was exiting the year. And you can see that the way this is going, we will end up with a margin structure as we already are in Q4 back to the same level as we were in 2019. And then as the revenues continue to grow, you should logically expect that margin to continue to improve and therefore, exceed where we were in 2019.
Rob Goldstein: Shaun, can I just follow up on Grant’s comments. My experience has always been the same. Regardless of the market, great buildings and great experiences always prevail. We have those in Macao. If you look at our EBITDA in Q3, I believe our EBITDA exceeded our next two contenders combined, which is quite a statement to the power of our buildings. There will be promotional issues occasionally here and there, so in the end, we have a structural advantage, which can’t be undermined. We have more capacity for lodging, food and beverage, retail entertainment and gaming capacity [indiscernible] by a bunch, and that will enable us to avail both a margin and EBITDA basis. And so yes, there will be occasionally a promotional issue here and there, but it really shouldn’t concern as far as our business. Our margins remain intact, and our dominance remain intact in all segments in Macao.
