Jamie Dimon: Totally and we try to show you guys at Investor Day, every branch we open, for every bank that we hire, for every tech thing we do, we are pretty comfortable. There are certain things that’s more like infrastructure, like getting to the cloud, and stuff like that, which you can’t identify all of that. But we are pretty comfortable that we €“ if they weren’t working, we changed them. So, we ask ourselves that question every day with any wealth managers or branches or certain things, so €“ and marketing is half of that, not quite half, but half that number. That’s a very specific €“ for the most part, very specific dollar in, how many dollars out. It’s not a guess, and we are pretty accurate at that kind of stuff. And again, if we €“ if there is $1 billion that we were spending that didn’t give us the return, we cut the $1 billion.
Mike Mayo: Alright. Thank you.
Operator: The next question is coming from the line of Steve Chubak from Wolfe Research. You may proceed.
Steve Chubak: Hi, good morning. So, I wanted to start off with a question on the outlook for trading in the investment banking businesses. Just Jeremy, given the strong pipelines you cited, I was hoping you can provide some additional color just in terms of what you are hearing from corporate clients, especially in the context of the mild recession scenario you outlined, when you would expect to see some inflection in investment banking activity. And similar question on the trading side, you are facing difficult comps in the coming year. We still have QT, rate volatility proxy still elevated. Do you anticipate a significant moderation in trading activity or not?
Jeremy Barnum: Sure. Thanks Steve. So, let’s do banking first. So, I think the thing that’s interesting about banking right now is that the declines have been so significant, obviously, from very elevated levels. But even relative to just 2019, 2022, was a relatively weak year. And as we look into 2023, it’s possible that the actual economic environment will be worse than it was in 2022. That could conceivably make you pessimistic about the investment banking wallet outlook. And to be sure, it’s not as if we are super optimistic. But it’s important to note that part of the issue here is how quickly things change in 2022, specifically with respect to rates as that affects the debt business and valuations as it affects M&A and DCM as well.
And one of the sort of necessary conditions for people to do deals or decide to raise capital is just getting comfortable with valuations in the all of open market. So, I think there is a chance that, that actually winds up helping in 2023 in the investment banking world. Of course, we don’t know. But those are some of the things that we are thinking about. Similarly, on the markets side, obviously, markets had another very strong year, better than we had expected since the numbers were so strong. Coming out of the pandemic, we were expecting more normalization than what we actually saw. And 2022 had a lot of themes. I think the active management community did well. That always helps us a little bit. And we had volatility with relatively orderly and continuing markets.
As we look towards 2023, maybe some of those themes will be a little bit less obvious, and that could be a little bit of a headwind. But on the other hand, it’s not like the volatility is going away. And markets seem to continue to be quite orderly. And 4.5%, 5% rate environment is probably one where there is more trading opportunities than the zero percent rate environment. So, of course, we don’t know. We will see. I think you would have to probably expect some normalization there. It’s €“ the numbers are really very strong in markets, but we will see and we will see what happens.
