The third part related to expenses, we are giving a guidance of a stable efficiency ratio at IFS. You know already that the efficiency ratio at IFS is particularly low at 37%. We are expecting expenses to grow mid-single digit, both at IFS and at the bank. And specifically talking about the investments and OpEx related to digital and financial disruption, what I can tell you there, Ernesto, is that the amount of investments that we do in technology, and then it’s very difficult to split between what is digital disruption and what is not, because at the end of the day, all the digital investments that we are doing are related to data, the app and all our strategy, which is to become a digital bank, that amount has become like 5 times what it used to be five to seven years ago.
It has remained at that level and will most likely continue to grow in the coming years. Now, where in the P&L can you see the positive or the benefits of all these digital strategies that we have been deploying? I think that it is in all of the lines of the P&L, because if I start to think of all the things that we have done in digital, it has boost for sure, number of clients, but it has also boost digital sales. So there you can think about more income. It has boost not only volumes, because we have increased the capability to do loans, both in — more in retail, but also in fees, because we have been able to do much more things in a digital way, fees, but also trading income. When we look at the penetration of products within the increased customer base, it has increased in most of the segments.
So I would say that it is mostly related to a positive operating leverages. So more revenues coming from all the things that we are doing in digital. For sure, there is also an impact in marginal cost, because all these new clients that we have brought to the bank, but also to Interseguro, to Inteligo and the merchants at Izipay, we would not have been able to do that without a digital strategy. Because at the same time, where we have increased 5 times the digital investments, we have reduced the physical presence more than 40%. So when you put everything together, I think you cannot separate and analyze only what is the impact of some specific digital initiatives, but is the impact of the overall digital strategy that we are deploying at IFS.
And maybe just to comment a little bit more specifically on the latest investment related to payments, there — some of the things that we are monitoring very strictly and that we are pushing for is synergies with Interbank. So there the play is not only the fees that already Izipay brings, but also all the synergies that we are creating in working, in making the ecosystem of Interbank stronger and attracting more inflows and float to Interbank accounts. And on top of that, with IzipayYa, which is focused on the micro-merchants, besides float and more inflows, also the possibility to start adding some new services that will provide additional fix. So let me stop there, Ernesto, to see whether I was able to answer the four questions.
Ernesto Gabilondo: Yes. Thank you very much, Michela and Luis Felipe. Just a last question. In your ROE, you are guiding an ROE above 12% this year, but when should we think about your medium-term ROE? I think in the past you were saying that IFS sustainable ROE is around 18%. So just wanted to hear from you, how are you seeing the ROE evolution in the next years? I understand this year will continue to be high in terms of cost of risk. But as you said, it could be normalizing to a cost of risk of 3% in the next years. That could be a driver. So just wondering, how should we think about the ROE evolution over the next couple of years?
Luis Felipe Castellanos: Sure. I think. Ernesto, thanks for your question. ROE should start normalizing after 2024. So I’m not pretty sure. Maybe Michela can tell us, according to our models, 2025 will already be there, but we’ll be targeting that 18% medium term. So hopefully we’ll be able to reach it. And it’s all related to the performance of the economy. And we have done our work in terms of changing the profile of our new customer acquisition in terms of credit cards and consumer loans. However, it has to react according to how the economy goes in the future. So our base case is that starting 2025 will be returning to higher profitability levels, and obviously, we have to pay close attention to the investment results, and that will be subject to the evolution of the international capital markets. I don’t know, Michela, if you want to complement something else.
Michela Casassa: Ernesto, I mean, the cost of risk is not necessarily going down to 3%. It will go down to below 4%, but not necessarily 3.0%. Somewhere between 3% and 3.5%, I don’t know exactly. In 2025 I mean, we could get back to the midterm ROE in 2025. Actually, the uncertainty there is if the bank goes back to the 17% to 18% ROE, that will depend on the speed of the recovery of the Peruvian economy, which directly impacts the consumer portfolio.
Ernesto Gabilondo: Okay. Excellent. Thank you very much.
Michela Casassa: You’re welcome.
Operator: [Operator Instructions] Our next question will come from Nicolas Riva with Bank of America. Please go ahead.
Nicolas Riva: Thanks very much, Michela and Luis Felipe, for taking my question. So I have a question on your Tier 2 bonds, the ones issued at the Interbank level at the bank level. So the bank already announced that you guys are going to be calling the outstanding of the 2029 Tier 2s in March just over $100 million. But you also have another Tier 2 bond that you can call next year. The economics are quite different from the ’29, a lower coupon, a lower reset. So if you can discuss what we should expect regarding the call option on the 2030 Tier 2s next year? And then also earlier this year, to finance the call on the 29s, you issued [indiscernible], Tier 2 bond. And that’s also like a legacy Tier 2 bond in the sense that there’s no coupon deferral and there’s no CET1 trigger for principal rider. My question is, why does the bank regulator in Peru allow banks to issue — to still issue these legacy Tier 2 bonds rather than Basel 3 Tier 2s? Thanks.
