FRMO Corporation (PNK:FRMO) Q2 2024 Earnings Call Transcript

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So that’s what we ended up doing. And so far, it’s working out well. So a couple of other things I’ll point you to in the balance sheet that I personally find intriguing. You can see why we’re a long-term investor. If you look at our balance sheet, November 30, and you look at deferred tax liability of $25 million, longer we hang on to what we have, the more money we’re making off this, which is essentially an interest-free loan. So you really want to be long-term investors. That’s not a small amount of money even to our now expanded shareholders’ equity. I’ll also point you in direction on liability side of balance sheet in security so short. So these are largely the dysfunctional ETFs, the path-dependent ones. We keep selling short. And you’ll observe as of the most recent reckoning, $10,683,000, in short sale proceeds.

And a market value of $1.291 million. So it’s a not insignificant part of our cash generation and we continue to do it, and we’re likely to expand it when opportunities present themselves. One other thing I’ll point you to investments in securities exchanges, our biggest holding of security exchanges is the Miami Options Holdings, which is colloquially known as MIAX, hasn’t come public yet, but it might come public one day, and I would pay attention to add valuation. That’s current valuation as a private company. You could look at their website, you can see how well the company is doing. And I expect that to continue. So we’re very, very excited and pleased with what’s going on that at MIAX. So in summary, we have our crypto businesses. We have our the exchanges businesses.

We have our own investments. And last but not least, we have Horizon Kinetics. So Horizon Kinetics is in the process of doing a reverse merger into a company known as Scott’s Liquid Gold and it’s publicly traded. So there’s going to be – when this deal closes, I guess, theoretically, there’s one now, a publicly traded valuation on Horizon Kinetics. So we won’t need to guess or estimate what the value of our investment in Horizon Kinetics is, we’ll be able to see it realized. So I would pay attention to that. I’m expecting, but don’t hold me to it, this deal to close sometime around the end of April. So let’s say, with fortune, April 30. And we maintain our proportionate interest in Horizon Kinetics. So that’s a lot of activity, a lot of public trade securities.

So Consensus coming public, Horizon Kinetics is coming public. A lot of interesting things going on I could probably continue, but I’ve given you a little tour of what’s happening. We’ve been very busy. So I think the best thing to do is maybe invite whatever questions you have to fill in the gaps of what I didn’t mention, and maybe you could kick it off Therese, just tell me what the question is, and I’ll be more than delighted to address them.

A – Therese Byars: I’ll be happy to, Murray. The first question, my impression is that most of the total FRMO assets on the balance sheet are valued using market prices. How much in one assets are not valued in that way. what is the best way for an investor to value FRMO, more specifically, given its assets, especially the increased attention to cryptocurrency? Why should it be priced/traded for more than the net asset value?

Murray Stahl: Okay. There’s a lot of questions there. So let’s say, what is – we take everything we can take it market, we take it market. So what’s easier to talk about what’s not in market. What’s not in market is our investment in MIAX. It’s – our holding is it’s a little bit above cost. The reason it’s a little bit of net greatly but reason it’s a little bit above cost because MIAX did some deals – equity deal subsequent to our transaction and which is using that value, it’s not a market price negotiated price step. We also have on the books at cost holdings of digital currency group, which are people on grayscale, which among are things sort of people who operate the Bitcoin Investment Trust that’s now in the process of becoming an ETF, and that’s at cost.

And then last but certainly not least, is Horizon, which you see on the balance sheet, it’s not a cost. It’s cost plus whatever accumulated earnings have been retained in the business. Horizon Kinetics has a pretty big dividend payout ratio. FRMO doesn’t pay a dividend. Horizon Kinetics pays, I think, pretty robust dividend. We received that dividend. So whatever is left over after the dividend gets put back in retained earnings. So you’re not seeing a market net, however, you will see a market net if you figure out what our proportionate interest is in Scott’s Liquid Gold. So to answer partially the question, I’ll come back to it in a second. Why should it trade at its market value? Well, we don’t really know what the appropriate valuation should be at MIAX.

We don’t know what the appropriate valuation should be a digital currency group. We will know, but we do not know at the moment what is the appropriate valuation of Scott’s Liquid Gold, which is really going to be Horizon Kinetics, the market will tell us that. Right under the Horizon Kinetics notation on the balance sheet, you will see this revenue share. So we have a revenue share. In other words, we get – it’s a little bit less than 5% revenues of Horizon Kinetics. So the question is, what is that worth? And I guess it depends on what the revenue of Horizon Kinetics is. I guess it depends on how much you can grow or fail to grow, reasonable minds may differ about what it’s worth. So we have it on – we created a number years ago, which I don’t know how relevant it is, it’s never been changed with a public valuation.

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