Johann Bordais: Hi, Marcelo. Thank you for those two questions. The first one, you’re talking about the margin, I think, again, we’re creating a new segment. There’s a lot of challenges whether it’s on the COG side. We decided to go for the best-in-breed suppliers. It’s a risk sharing partnership that we have with our suppliers. We decided to have them and go for help us only – not only for the vehicle and the development, but also the production, the series, the certification and also the aftermarket. We’re all learning, let’s call it. We do have challenges when it comes to the weight, the performance of the vehicle. We have also on the lead time and also the – well, the development in general. So I don’t think it’s about margin right here and making sure that we’re going to be making a lot of margin on this vehicle.
Like I said it’s to make sure that we first of all certify. We’re very, very cautious and cost cautious about how we spend the money that we have right now and the cash. We talked about this. Edu made it clear that we’re in a comfortable position, but got to be very careful, and that’s what we’re doing. It needs to take us to the certification and it will be the second part of the question that you had or the answer that Valentini will give you an update. But right now it needs to be reasonable and what we’re focused on is not only Eve to make money, but also the customer. It needs to make sense. There’s actually no point of delivering eVTOLs to customers that will demonstrate not to be profitable for the operator. It will just only – will be only selling in 100 of them, and that will be, it will kill the segment and that’s not the purpose.
So I think this is exactly the sweet balance that we’re trying to look for with the customers, with the operators to see first, yes, are we going to be charging and what’s going to be the cost of eVTOLs? You got to get the return and how much you’re going to be charging on the packs. And we all know that we want to go similar to a premium risk sharing platform, but it’s a long way, right. You want to make sure that you can do this effectively. So I think it’s a partnership that we have with our customers and both customers and ourselves and suppliers need to be profitable, so if we want to be for the long run and we want to be for the wrong run. And for the second part, Valentini.
Luiz Valentini: Yes. So, hi Marcelo, thank you for the question. So you remember that ANAC is developing a certification basis specific for our eVTOL project, as is the case with the FAA. And it’s very important that we understand what the requirements are early on in the project so that we can define the vehicle solutions in a way that they will comply eventually with the requirements that are established, right. So that’s why we’ve been working so hard with ANAC, our primary certification authority to get these requirements defined and then be able to move on to other stages that we call means of compliance, detailed design standards, which really are the way in which we will show compliance to the requirements that are defined, right.
We are confident in the step that we are today and how mature the basis of certification is. But of course we need it to advance and that’s why we put that as one of the goals for this year. And so we are working both with ANAC, as I mentioned, and the FAA to make sure that what we have established will support the development of the vehicle for the next phases of the project. We still have some significant uncertainties on how to align the bases with a basis of other authorities in Europe, for example. And we also have some significant uncertainty. And this is something that affects the whole industry, not only our project, on the operational requirements. So both ANAC and the FAA are still developing what the operational requirements will be for these vehicles.
This includes things like reserves for flight, but also includes training, pilot requirements, things like that. So there is still a lot to be done. This affects the development and we are working on that with the authorities. With respect to entry into service in 2026, you mentioned we’re still maintaining that date. We think that based on where we are today on the project, that’s still something that we are targeting, but also depends as you pointed on the development that we have on the certification basis and with the authorities in general.
Marcelo Motta: Perfect. Super clear. Thank you very much.
Operator: And the next question will be from Cai von Rumohr from TD Cowen. Please go ahead.
Cai von Rumohr: Terrific. Thank you so much. Guys when do you expect to basically start flight test of the conforming prototype? And then secondly, when do you hope to start certification flight tests? And what are the other key milestones that we’re looking for to get us to certification and maybe give us some time frame? I know it’s not a specific date, but timeframe as to when you might start those? Thank you.
Johann Bordais: Hi Cai. Thanks for the question. So we are expecting to fly the prototypes in the second half of next year. We think that that’s a timeline that supports the entry into service in 2026 because as you know, there is some maturing of the vehicles to be done during flight and then after this development period that we really start to get credit for the flights towards certification. So there is usually, and that’s the case with, let’s say all of the projects, even with fixed wing airplanes, things like that, that you have some period in which you’re flying to finalize. Let’s say tuning of control laws, deflection of control surfaces eventually any aerodynamic fixes that have to be made. So you finalize the configuration, definition and in flight and then you really get to a configuration in which you can start taking credit for certification.
So flying in the second half of next year is something that we believe will support this development, still in time for entry into service in 2026. With respect to important milestones, until then, certainly the certification basis definition is one of them. We are working with ANAC, as we mentioned now that we have the commenting period closed, trying to support them as much as we can in their process of finalizing the certification basis, but also advancing, as I mentioned earlier, discussion on means of compliance, for example. So these next steps of the certification process, such as defining what the means of compliance will be, and then the certification plans being approved by the authorities will support the taking credit of the flights for certification.
So there will be other stages that we will communicate after finalizing the certification bases. These I believe will also help you to see the progress and the preparedness for the start of the flight test for certification.
Cai von Rumohr: Thanks a lot. And then what are the key technology challenges you anticipate? For example, I know with beta, which is the other eVTOL, it has a lift cruise design. I think the transition from lift phase to cruise, they basically, I think have done it now, but that took them a little longer than expected. What do you think the key tech challenges are? Maybe for Valentini?
Luiz Valentini: Sure. So I think there are a few. I mean, one I think that everybody encountered first was making everything work with the electric power, right? So using batteries only, we know that the batteries today still are quite limited for longer ranges, but also for higher payloads, right? So it’s making this integration and having the vehicles work is a challenge, I think that everybody that is on the stage of development that we are, have already encountered. Then after that there are some challenges with respect to flights. So for example, these vehicles they don’t have an inherent stability and flight that conventional fixed wing configurations have. And so that means that we are much more dependent on the fly-by-wire flight control systems, for example.
And so this is something that has to be developed in these new transition phases or these new phases of flight that eVTOLs have, right? Being a lift + cruise or a tilt rotor or any other configuration there is a change in flight between the hover flight and the cruise flight that requires a lot of complexity on the fly-by-wire flight control. So this is something that we see for us that will be a significant challenge also. But it’s one that we feel prepared with the background that we bring from Embraer of developing flight control systems with fly-by-wire something that we have been doing at Embraer or that Embraer has been doing for the last few projects, right. So Praetor, C-390, E2 these are all fly-by-wire airplanes in which we are basing very much of our technology, and it’s something that we bring with very high maturity.
So – so I think that combining just to summarize the systems with the battery power in the eVTOL flight, and the vertical flight is a challenge that I think everybody has faced. And then getting this to fly in the different phases of flight especially with the fly-by-wire that I mentioned, I think is something that will also be challenging for all of the manufacturers.
Cai von Rumohr: Terrific. Thank you. Great answer. I have one last question, which is, as you know, I think the FAA is expected to – has a schedule to finalize the operational requirements, where two of the keys are, what is the reserve requirement and the training? Do we need to be able to have two pilots upfront to do the training? Do you know where they are on that? And do you still expect the FAA, and I assume ANAC also to kind of reach finalization of the operational requirements because obviously that will have some impact on whether your design needs to be changed or not? Thank you.
