Matthew Howlett: Got you. And then last question. The leverage obviously is right in the range that you guys — that you target. But obviously, NAV as got a big bump up here in July. You’ve raised some money to the ATM. What’s the appetite to the reopening in one of the preferred or maybe bond series I think they’re trading around 7% yield. To call a yield to maturity or to even do a new issue. We’re seeing 5-year debt get priced in the 7.5% range recently. What’s the appetite to with the improvement in leverage in July to issue some more preferred or baby bonds?
Thomas Majewski: Yes. Well, so we’ve, for a long time, targeted running the company between 25% and 35% total leverage, including unsecured debt and preferred to common equity. We’re obviously in that band right now. We have done outside of the band once or twice. That band served us very, very well going into COVID. we’ve never reached — we were never offside on the ACR, which is a very — obviously, a very important measure of how we manage the company. And it’s much more of an art than a science as to where — why the 30% to 40% or 20% to 30%, you got to make a judgmental call, and we did a long time ago, and that’s obviously served the company very well is we never had to interrupt distributions due to an ACR issue. First off, Unfortunately, I don’t like — don’t like to disagree too much on calls.
I will say, I think our — the yields to maturity on our debt and preferred based on the last time we ran it was sadly a little lighter than 7, probably in the mid-8s last I look actually. So that’s — we issued 7.75 piece of paper off of EIC, not too long ago. And that did really well, and the deal was in the full shoe was exercised. So we’re familiar with that mid- to high 7s kind of market. We kind of balance that with — we’d like to keep whatever possible within the targeted leverage band. I’m also focused on our maturities. And right now, while the 5-year markets open, we have asked 1 or 2 bankers. What about a 7 or 10 year, and I don’t think they’ve called us back yet. So one of the things, if we were to add another 5-year — that gives us another 2028 maturity.
So we think about that. Sadly, there are some rules around the OID rules for ATM issuance. So while the preferreds and I think even the baby bonds may be ATM eligible, I think it’s really just the D, which is a perpetual that we can issue up the ATM. And we have actually done a tiny bit of that, but not a material amount sadly that market is not too deep. So we keep our eyes open for it. We are in touch with the bankers, I’d love to see a 7- or 10-year market reopen. I think you might see us be move more aggressively if there were attractive rates with a bit more tenor. That said, we may issue a 5-year as well at some point, but I’m mindful of managing our maturity wall.
Matthew Howlett: Well, it certainly could be accretive if you’re putting CLO equity on it and purchase yields around 20%.
Thomas Majewski: Yes. The math is easy, honestly, the only — the thing that — that’s a no-brainer by CLO BBs and be very accretive. The thing that gnaws at me is what if we — it’s obviously not a prediction, but what if we had another COVID in late 2017 or early 2018? And when ECC went into COVID, I don’t remember what our shortest maturity was, I want to guess it was like 2026. We have please check the notes to be — the tapes to be definitive. But we had no unsecured — we had no secured debt and we had no maturities for multiple years. If I went into 2020 with a maturity in late ’21 or even mid-’21, I would [indiscernible] now let’s see what — obviously, it all worked out, but we didn’t know when the market was. So just as companies are mindful of their maturity wall, I like sitting where I sit, knowing the nearest deadline.
