The second element clearly will continue to be operational excellence. We will see in German increasing rollout of smart meters and increasing digitalization also of our customer care. And with that, while Leo talked about the opportunity to grow our workforce, that’s true for many areas. But in some areas, we will also continuously work on further efficiencies, and we said also, yes, on FTE reduction when it comes to further digitalization — digitizing our services. So that ambition is built, that’s the message on very sound robust trends, and they are all manageable from our side. So no excuse later on.
Leonhard Birnbaum: I remember that one.
Iris Eveleigh: The next question comes from Meike Becker.
Meike Becker: And also Marc Congratulations from my side as well. Let me focus on your energy infrastructure business. If I may, arguably, that could be a growth area where we have the least visibility? And if I play devil’s advocate, I might also say that some of your peers in the past have put out very ambitious numbers and have been later on, pulled it back. So what KPIs are you looking at? Or what KPI should we be looking at and to see if growth is on track? And what comfort can you give us that this segment is growing strongly? The second question is on your interest rate sensitivity in EBITDA and net income.
Marc Spieker: Second question, I didn’t get it.
Iris Eveleigh: Interest rate sensitivity and EBITDA and net income.
Leonhard Birnbaum: Okay. I mean let me take Iris and you take the second one. So yes, we are showing now more visibility, which is why we’re showing it now as a new segment. I’m not going to say what I think about my competitors, you can say that. But for us, we want to deliver also in that area. It’s also marked by the way. And the KPIs actually are more or less the same that you know from all our other businesses. We are looking at EBITDA. We are looking at CapEx as an indicator of growth. We are looking obviously at operational KPIs like the pipeline, which we use for internal steering. And then we have an IRR hurdle rate from 7% to 10% that Marc just mentioned in his speech for each individual project, depending on the market and risk profile of the customer. And basically, all of that then translates into the numbers that Marc presented. It’s pretty straightforward. We don’t try to make it complicated.
Marc Spieker: If I may add, kind of on top of the financial KPIs, of course, we focus on technology. So our solutions are carbon neutral or carbon neutral ready. And secondly, this is an organic project business. So what we’re not going to do is buy into growth in that area. We’re going to develop that business, project-by-project on an organic basis. On interest rates, first of all, the really relevant question, if I may, actually say is what’s the impact on our cash flows of changing interest rates. And the answer to that one is nil, nothing, yes, because our funding is now set up to exactly be in sync with the regulatory returns. So whatever happens on the interest rate side, what you as an investor and analyst can bang on is it actually doesn’t change anything for us as a company from a financial point of view.
Yes. And from an EBITDA point of view, as it’s just one side, it will depend on — it is cumulative depending on new investments in Germany. That’s going to be a question then when will interest change — interest rates change for how long and so on. So the simple answer — the simple answer, it has no impact when it comes to the value of our company.
Iris Eveleigh: And the next question comes from — who is next in line? The next question comes from Alberto from Goldman.
Alberto Gandolfi: I mean, at the suns of — repetitive, Marc, congratulations for big job, can I also Martin Jager for all the help over the years and congratulation him on his fantastic move. And 2 questions on my end. I don’t want to be dismissive about the planning just presented. You managed to make power distribution grades exciting, probably for the first time in the history of the industry. But I was trying to understand what’s next here. So if I think about the balance sheet headroom, there’s €5 million to €10 billion. And I was wondering, Germany is a highly disseminated market. Is there an angle here where you could be a consolidator, maybe of your own minorities or a consolidator of other concessions perhaps even considering an asset swap, whereby you can swap some of the gas grid for the power grid.
Is that something that is on your mind potentially down the line? And the second question, I think if we look at Slide 7, we can clearly see that CapEx starts below €6 billion at €5.7 billion and ends up at €7.5 billion, and Leo, you were talking about this level of growth well into the 2030s. Does it mean that the €7.5 billion is obviously not the maximum you can do and potentially beyond ’28, that €7.5 provided returns are attractive, could actually keep growing?
Leonhard Birnbaum: All right. So Alberto, you don’t sound dismissive to us at all. We have seen the electrification compounder which you put out, which we have taken note of. So we feel actually pretty good with whatever you throw in our direction. So no, actually, you all — I’ve a first comment, you’re all already asking what’s next, yes? I mean, what’s next is first delivery. I mean, it’s €42 billion delivery. It’s €11 billion EBITDA in ’28 delivery. So yes, we are thinking beyond, but we are focusing on our organization first on deliver here and now because every dream pipe otherwise, is worth nothing if we don’t deliver in the next year, the year after next and so on. So — so now I don’t want to sound dismissive, but I just want to remind that a good plan is not automatically executed.
